Please tell us about anything that’s happened to you that you think is a) bad and b) results from the increase of the database state. This can include stories about governments (local and regional), companies, charities and online systems. Don’t give your real name unless you are really happy to do so….
Erasing David
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My daughter was profiled by her potential employers on Facebook. They checked out her page in loads of details and even had print-offs of the page on the desk in front of them during the interview. I know she should have known that they might use that but it seems really wrong – a bit like people watching how you behave socially for a bit before deciding whether you are a possible employee. She didn’t get the job…
Comment by Ray Barter — March 10, 2010 @ 5:26 pm
Unfortunately, that sort of thing happens more often than people realize. It’s rare that people find out about it, but potential employers often do take advantage of the information available about a person on sites like FaceBook, especially when hiring for important positions.
Yes, it is like watching people behave socially, the same in that you should be more cautious about your exploits both in the community and online if you are hoping to keep them private. I think that we should all just learn to be more careful with how we share information about our lives with the general public.
Jason
Comment by Jason — March 13, 2010 @ 10:57 am
I live in the US, where a social security number (SSN) is our primary identifier to the powers that be and the most sensitive piece of private data that is commonly requested in forms, sign-ups, etc. I’ve experienced countless instances where I am asked to provide SSN to a non-government entity to be used as a unique ID in their own system (the biggest culprits are universities), and when the person collecting the form is questioned about the need for the SSN, you can see they are fabricating a reason on the spot to justify it. I have even had a receptionist argue with me for providing an arbitrary sequence as my ID – it took twenty minutes with her and five more minutes with her manager to explain that if there was no lawful reason to require my personal information, and my SSN was to be used as a student ID number to be looked up and provided in all areas of the university, from the library to the cafeteria, that it wasn’t the SSN that was wanted but a unique identifier that they were after.
But the best scenario is when your form is utterly mishandled by the person to whom you hand it. A few weeks ago I had to fill out a form in order to *enter a building* where I had a scheduled appointment. When asked about the form and the need for my SSN, the woman at the desk told me that because the company in the building was a non-profit group overseen by the county government whose purpose was to help the unemployed build job skills and gain employment, they had to report back to the government to match up the registered unemployed to verify they were serving county residents in need or else they would not receive their funding. This is the most credible and the longest fabrication I have yet heard. I told her that I was not seeking a job, but was late for a business meeting with a woman who worked there, and she said, “Well, I can give you your form back if you don’t want to register, but if you come back you’ll have to.” I didn’t put my number down, but I did put my name and business address. When I came back down not a half hour later, she couldn’t find the form — and the best part is, although she felt half-certain she might have shredded the document, she handed me the folder of about 50-100 forms she had collected that day to go through, and proceeded to help someone else. I could have walked out of there with a stack of forms full of personal information – SSN, date of birth, employment history, residence, household information – that all who came before me had filled in without a second thought. Who knows who has access to that information once it’s copied into the computer!
Comment by M Larsen — March 13, 2010 @ 5:10 pm
There are tools for effectively erasing your identity which still work.
I don’t want to detail them here, but it is still possible to disappear if you really have to.
Networks of free people exist, like the Blanks and the 404s, so it can be done.
Comment by A N Other — April 3, 2010 @ 7:39 pm
Congratulations on a very important and well-produced documentary. I know it will also have an impact on the privacy debate in the U.S.
Comment by Jeff Chester, Washington, DC — April 5, 2010 @ 7:55 pm
The Government assures us that it will secure our data but this week alone a fax machine at my work in a unsecured location received the full medical history of a 72 year woman detailing her most intimate sexual clinical condition and treatment. Presumably someone was careless in dialing. This is not the first time and is a perfect example of what will happen when our ID data is accessed by low paid and poorly trained public sector workers particularly as the government seeks to cut costs further.
Comment by Jeff Orr — April 6, 2010 @ 2:12 pm
A N Other: Eh? Don’t be such a tease – give us a bit more information than that. It would be very relevant.
Comment by Caspar — April 8, 2010 @ 10:06 pm
Unsettling film this is, there should be more of these in cinemas and overall. Since the post WorldWar2 times we are miraculously held in conviction that everything is alright. Personally, I think that this (false) feeling of safety is making us lazy and weakens our awareness. Especially the young people who are growing already with this system in place are gaining the feeling that this is normal when it’s anything but normal.
To A N Other – I agree, there are ways to disappear, but do we want to sacrifice our lifestyle for this? I don’t. But at the same time I don’t want live in the system, that is the reason for my fears. I am thinking how to protect myself within the system.
Comment by Martin — April 15, 2010 @ 12:44 pm
[...] after reading the following comment on the Erasing David Blog I think it’s gonna be a permanent detox from Facebook … My daughter was profiled by [...]
Pingback by Digital Detox Week « The Freeborn — April 18, 2010 @ 10:08 am
Today I rang British Telecom simply for an estimate on costs for buying their broadband and phone package.
The stiffly prim person I spoke to would not do anything without my date of birth and mother’s maiden name.
No explanation was offerred for taking this information. These days I just give obviously incorrect
information on the grounds it will at least add confusion. So she was
happy to receive a dob of 29 feb in a non-leap year and maiden name Xxxx. I suggest we all agree to
submit the same wrong information. What if you never knew your mother’s maiden name.
Same happens when you buy a printer cartridge! Where are the lawmakers?
We must have better protection from commercial surveillance than this!
Comment by Tom x — April 22, 2010 @ 7:55 pm
I wholeheartedly recommend your approach, Tom. Feed the machine rubbish and eventually it will choke.
Comment by David Bond — April 23, 2010 @ 7:36 am
Imagine my surprise on buying a ticket to see erasing david at the cameo in Edinburgh that will self is on the live satellite panel following the film. Last time I saw Will was a the book festival in Edinburgh in 2008 when I asked him his feelings about the ID card he was apparently very unphased by them and couldn’t see a problem with having one.He said that he was basically a law abiding citizen and didn’t see a problem, he asked me whether I would have one and I said I would go to prison first, he offered to visit me and to furthur add to the merriment and my humiliation got the audience to agree to visit me too.
Comment by Bonnie — April 23, 2010 @ 8:01 pm
All I ever did was talk about this kinda stuff. So they DISAPPEARED me and did all kind of unspeakable stuff to me….story here
http://jakemaverick.blogspot.com/
Comment by Jake Maverick — April 23, 2010 @ 11:33 pm
well i relized to when asess to one medical records and got sent open by royal mail and not the frist time, i will change my tel provider to and i also no question every thing now and chnage froms to state i DO NOT agree to share to other third parites my info , even on health reasons and also ask for whom would if i sign any from, whom are the trid paried as the from would be open to abuse, even moved 6mths back had my photo taken just to be a tentant for my landlord, if i knew what i now know i would refuse and test this out, as i was to ill and not legal rep on hosuing law etc, like a mug i had my photot taken , then weeks back i asked for all data they hold on me, they want mony of me for this, so i will try and push this point, this week i will have my own from ready to state i do not agree to any sharing of info of me. as whom knows where it ends up, great site, i found it today ,
Comment by jill — April 25, 2010 @ 9:24 pm
I take back my comment about Will Self he was fantastic in the live debate, and came from an angle I could completely relate to.
Comment by Bonnie — April 29, 2010 @ 11:52 pm
I have got into the habit of checking my receipt at the supermarket till to make sure I have paid the correct price for the goods bought. I frequently find that I have paid over the price marked on the shelf…recently (in the last few years), instead of just giving me my money back they request a name and address. When I have questioned their right to such information, and how it could possibly be contingent on my receiving my due monies, I am faced with blank expressions and some old chat about it being ‘company policy’.
The same will happen when you take faulty/unrequired goods back to the shop. I have got into the habit of reeling off misinformation. False name, false address etc…
These people have no right to such sensitive information and I believe it is our duty as free individuals (in a puportedly free society) to withhold and, necessarily, distort any information we give out.
I hold no credit cards/store cards/loyalty cards etc. Tesco don’t know jack about me and that’s the way I’d like it to stay.
Put it this way, I don’t ask the shop assistant’s name and address every time I buy something…why would I want to know? Indeed it would be creepy even to ask – I find it equally creepy to be asked. Buyer beware!
Comment by Jon Wilde — April 30, 2010 @ 4:59 am
Thanks Jon – totally agree – never give a store your address just because they ask… Great point. But I’m afraid that The Crucible database (Tescos big database of shoppers and their preferences, run by Dunhumby) contains information about you. They buy info about lots of people, even though who don’t shop at Tescos…. Why not Subject Access Request them and see
Comment by David Bond — April 30, 2010 @ 7:27 am
December 2007 i was on the run from a series of hit squads in guinea, lebanon, syria, rwanda and kenya. All because i had invented a fraud proof voting system for the third world which was deeply unpopular throughout whitehall. Find my account at cd3wd.Com/seev/intel.Htm . It will make a good movie. Offers please. Alex weir. Harare
Comment by Alex weir — April 30, 2010 @ 12:35 pm
Thanks David I will but I seriously doubt they’ve got that much on me. The last time I paid for something with a card was in the 90s…I’m careful not to leave an electronic trail behind me. I first read ‘Ninetine Eighty-Four’ in 1994 and have been rattled ever since.
George Orwell was a true visionary and I recommend that everyone read it if they are in any doubt about just how badly things can go wrong when information and (therefore) power get into the wrong hands. The Information Commissioner recently stated that we are ’sleep-walking into a surveillance society’. He got it wrong – we are riding an express train to 1984-esc dystopic future…(hyperbole neither needed nor intended.)
Comment by Jon Wilde — April 30, 2010 @ 3:10 pm
During the panel discussion (or it may have been the film itself I cannot quite remember), 1 person remarked that 39 people had committed suicide as a result of corrupt databases. Could anyone tell me where to get more information on this statistic?
Comment by Lucy-ann — May 1, 2010 @ 1:32 pm
Sure. The police operation was called OPERATION ORE. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ore. Duncan Campbell has done an amazing job in uncovering the terrible way the operation was handled.
Comment by David Bond — May 1, 2010 @ 7:11 pm
“I am not a free man, I`m a number”
Comment by Steve Fletcher — May 5, 2010 @ 6:57 pm
Well I watched the programme and I thought it was one of the laziest yet on the issue of what privacy we safeguard v the other things we care about – for which we volunteer to give up some privacy?
Do we think we need to CRB check people working with vunerable people or not?
Do we think the police should be able to catch those paying for children to be filmed being raped, or not? I may have a view and you may have a different one, but it seems to me there are pros and cons?
If we care about protecting the vulnerable in our society from those who would harm them, we need to understand there can be mistakes in the methods we use, and do everything we can to prevent mistakes – this will be so whether information is written on clay, paper, in a computer, or otherwise.
Or, do we decide that we do not want CRB checks or operation Ore? Is the loss of privacy and the risk of mistake too high a cost? That is the issue. Simply using CRB and Operation Ore mistakes as an example of some SHOCK HORROR state surveillance was utterly pointless and made no case at all.
I would have been happy if Mr Bond had made a film about the trade-offs we are making, and the balances we are trying to strike. Instead he ran around pretending to be under surveillance when the only surveillance was private detectives he was paying for! He was very angry about the nursery forms though. I suspect he wants it both ways, he wants to withold information that informs the decisions that people (not ‘the state’) need to make, but he wants his family safe. I wonder if he would be relaxed about the people working in his daughter’s nursery being unchecked? Or, if the nursery did not keep records of children to see if there is behaviour that should be looked into, for example, by child protection staff? We know how much screaming goes on when children are abused and ‘no-one spotted it’ at nursery or school. That is one of the reasons schools are asked to keep more detailed information about children. We also expect schools to spot children with special needs and not just ignore them as they did in the past. So is that right, or wrong? What do we lose if we give information, and what do we gain? Mr Bond was not interested in the difficult thinking involved there.
And did the film tell us anything about actual state surveillance (eg police or secret service intelligence gathering) in Britain? Something that actually is a civil liberties issue? I laughed out loud at the Stasi comparison. But what an insult to those who suffered real oppression.
And the dreadful ‘tracking down’ of Mr Bond ……
In what way did someone behaving deceitfully by lying to a hospital receptionist to get confirmation of a hospital appointment time show some dreadful state surveillance and loss of privacy? Should the hospital appointment time not be on record at all? Of course it should. Should you be able to ring and check your own hospital appointment you have forgotten? Of course you should. Did the hospital just give the information out to a third party without thought? – no – they were lied to. So yes they could increase the checks before giving info over the phone – but then if Mr Bond was really calling up and did not have all the info he needed to hand – how unhelpful the NHS would have been then, he would have been very upset! A tale to tell over dinner of the awful behaviour of state employees?
There seemed to be a belief in some golden age where we had ‘privacy’. So could any of this have happened 50 years ago? Of course. You had a hospital appointment, the hospital had it written down in a diary for the receptionist, someone could call and pretend to be you, and there was even less thought about personal information protection in the past! So what was the big point about the modern surveillance state? Nada. Nothing.
So, for me, a really disappointing and shallow bit of film-making which contributed nothing to a thoughtful look at the issues. The talking heads made speeches, and we are all doomed apparently. But I was left not knowing why. And Mr Bond came over like a sulky sixth former shouting ‘its not fair’ about the modern technological world he takes full advantage of -’data rape’ for gods sake! His wife seemed totally sane and I felt sorry for her being sucked into his paranoia at the end.
Finally – I saw that you in fact only invited comments here about things that have happened to me that “are bad, and result from the increase of the database state” So no prejudging there! Good things would not be of interest I take it?
But all my examples would be of private companies asking me for data – and as other people have pointed out – you don’t have to give it to them! They can have your custom, or not.
Boys and girls, we need to grow up.
Comment by Billie — May 6, 2010 @ 9:54 am
I found your documentary fascinating yesterday. Ever since I read the hidden persuaders (thanks to Adam Curtis – the power of nightmares) I have had an avid interest in marketing and monitoring. Everything featured in your documentary has an astonishing resonance with what I tell my friends and colleagues, and while many of them are sceptical – its great to refer them to something more legitimate (and apparently believable) than me !
I could relate to the feeling of being followed aswell, as I was attacked a few years ago; having taken the people to court I was threatened with all sorts of things and found myself doing the kind of mental justification of being followed described in the film.
Its excellent to get this kind of real view out to people, as so many people now are so lead by what they read they actually belive the fiction before the truth. I loved the film and found myself getting goosebumps throughout; particularly with regard to the CRB checks and the data stored by amazon. Not to mention mobile phone use – which is almost a film in itself, with triangulation and gps detection.
Knowing who you are escaping is a very valid point; for me the marketing and advertising tools used nowadays are some of the most destructive parts of our society. Building people with false images and inevitably leaving the constantly wanting and consuming more. The more information they have; the more they will find out about us.
…and I wonder to what end?
Comment by midi_error — May 6, 2010 @ 2:18 pm
I didn’t pay the PIs. We could CRB check against a known list – rather then producing a file on every applicant. We definitely don’t want Operation Ore – it was completely misjudged and used a single dimension of corrupt data to put hundreds of people through hell. Thanks for letting us know what film you’d have been happy with. You should make that film! Seriously. Borrow our camera. The Stasi comparison works pretty well – so long as you don’t take it to be a crit of current politicians and use it to compare mechanisms of data collection. I don’t want my family to be safe in the way you mean it. I don’t think there was a golden age when privacy ruled. Yes, we’re inviting comments that support our argument. It’s our website. I think you are mainly wrong but thanks so much for posting your comment and if anyone wants to respond in support or defence – we’ll post that too. David
Comment by David Bond — May 7, 2010 @ 3:20 pm
I’m not sure you make a good case – following a distinctly trappy website and going to easily-penetrated meetings is pretty crazy if you’re trying to avoid detection.
I found the film a bit confusing too – I would have liked a more direct narrative thread – the PI’s seemed like nice guys, why not follow them?
Comment by Phil — May 7, 2010 @ 8:31 pm
The whole world is under surveillance, practices like these have bece common place and saying that this is nothing new (like “Billie” there said) is a load of horseshit! Up until the 80’s one could easily break free from the ever present eye of the state/industry whatever u wanna call it, today, unless you want to put yourself in danger and depend on the black marketeers, even then with biometrics you’ll eventually be spotted somewhere, at some border or small town, even in the bloody jungle you’re probably gonna rise the suspition of some hikers or hunters and as we are a histeric population that constantly divulges not only our own info but actually tattle-tales on others, dropping off the grid is almost impossible, you can burn your ID or passport, cut up your cards, try and live off the land or work off books but eventually you will be treated like a criminal for refusing to follow the wave… Singled out as a ‘terrorist’ or deemed insane and stuck into a mental asylum, you name it… See, the “powers that be” want control over us at whatever cost, of we refuse to oil the machinery of government and big corporations then we’ll be throw in jail or the loony bin where they have absolute control and can use you as a means to increase taxes, etc… Believe it or not, we are slaves, even our “rebelious free-spirited” escapases into “lifestyle” we think are unconventional (party boys & girls, greenies, vegans, men of adventure & mistery or deviants and junkies) are manufactured middle finger responses that actually make us the underbelly of the machine, really! Only as a world-wide community educated & determined to change the status quo can we change this… I don’t want to be a slave, I want to be able to travel anywhere and do anything (so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone) without everyone keeping tabs on me… Doesn’t everyone? I wanna be accepted by who I am and what skills I do have, not by some stack of papers that yell you I’m only qualified to be whatever I studied for or that I don’t believe my carbon footprint is relevant considering big business’ carbon footprints are like the collective footprints of giants who’d flatten out the everest with a toe… It’s no way to live! We all should be thinking seriously about these issues, not just for ourselves but for our children and grandchildren… Thanks David for your documentary, people need to take their privacy more seriously or else we’re doomed!
Comment by Santi — May 10, 2010 @ 5:19 pm
The DOB, maiden name, last four of SSN, etc, type stuff is purely for the consumer. I’ve written software consumer-facing companies/departments, and what it’s for is to pull records based on a combination of info that will likely yield a couple records (hopefully just one).
As a programmer we could simply offer each customer (you) a unique key (in fact databases store records with their own unique keys anyway), but you morons would likely forget/misplace them anyway, making the whole thing pointless.
Comment by Shaun — May 27, 2010 @ 3:32 am
I thought that while the concept of such a film was useful, the film itself lacked bite. The only way that David was caught was by someone lying verbally, to a hospital worker. So, not as a result of the state databases or surveillance at all. Do another one but show us how Tesco’s database works; how CCTV and CRB checks are intruisive; how being asked to give personal information every time we buy something is necessary. In effect, be much more angry about it all!
Angi
Comment by Angi — May 27, 2010 @ 8:36 pm
No need to go to the extremes used by the two investigators just buy a profile from http://www.theprofilers.co.uk and discover all you need to know about someone in the UK from as little at £20.
Comment by Hollie — May 28, 2010 @ 10:55 am
Dear Hollie – I am so flabbergasted by your sheer nerve posting an advert to your website on this blog, that I’ve decided to allow it up! I congratulate your bare-faced cheek! What utter shamelessness! Your business, if I understand it correctly, is to stoke fear and mistrust (“Newspapers and glossy magazines regularly feature true life stories of people who have met a prospective partner only to discover later that they are not the person they claimed to be” – from your website – but really, this happens SO RARELY – and of course newspapers print it – just like they print pages and pages of terrorism stories although they happen so rarely you might as well worry about being hit by a meterorite). They you offer a solution: (“We can quickly and discreetly profile most adults living in the UK and for as little as £20 provide you with a standard background report containing their biographical basics, the results from background checks and up to 10 years history of who they’ve lived with.”) for £20. OK I admit you are not responsible for the database state – but you are making a buck out of it, and out of fear-mongering. By the way – why not send my a profile of myself for free, then I’ll honestly review it and tell everyone what you get for £20. Thanks! David
Comment by David Bond — May 28, 2010 @ 2:25 pm
Thanks for your comments Angi. How’s this for bite: http://erasingdavid.com/categories/protect-yourself/nhs/ Hospital workers are pretty key to the whole issue. You should make the Tesco / CCTV / CRB check film. You’ll need a hook though, so people want to watch it. How about insisting that all Tescos till workers have CRB checks (they do, after all, occasionally serve children) and enforce it by sending kids in with CCTV cameras on their heads? I wish we could have covered more in the film, sorry. David
Comment by David Bond — May 28, 2010 @ 2:30 pm
Blimey Shaun you have a gloomy view of us consumers. Are you saying you could give me a unique password or key which I’d then give to anyone to access services etc? Wouldn’t that be even more risky that having a combination of things such as DOB / MMN / National Insurance (that’s what we call SSN over here in England – I assume you are writing from the land of Uncle Sam)? What if I lost that one password? Do your programmes pull records from the web or from corporate databases? V interesting. Thanks. David
Comment by David Bond — May 28, 2010 @ 2:49 pm
Hi David, how’s things? No cyrillic this time
Have recently returned to UK, well sort of. We are told constantly that UK Border Control have a database that records all passports in and out so they know who’s in the country and who’s left it. Well, l ‘accidentally’ used my friends passport to get back in (l had my own in case this ‘accident’ was noticed). So, if this UK Border Control is actually working … my friend is now logged as coming in although he never left but in reality l’ve come in but still logged as going out.
Is it a case of the UK Border Control being somewhat like the Wizard of Oz or was l just lucky? l leave UK again shortly but l’ll use my own … then l’ve left the UK twice! l’ll keep you informed.
Comment by Spartan — May 31, 2010 @ 1:51 am
any chance this film come on MSM? wd like to see it, if it is still legal for me to…..
Comment by JM — June 25, 2010 @ 1:52 am
Hi David!! Ojala puedas entender lo que escribo….. Es increible la cantidad de data no solo “personal” sino “privada” que se maneja en la red. Direcciones particulares, modelos de automoviles, composicion familiar, fotos de hijos, de vacaciones, de lo cotidianno abunda hoy en cualquier sitio, y lo peor es que nadie mide las consecuencias de esto. Mas aun cuando hablamos de niños, o jovenes, ya sea por su ingeniudad, o desconocimiento, publican desde datos muy precisos de sus padres-status, trabajo, profesion- y dan pomenores de sus quehaceres cotidianos: horarios, lugares de encuentro, colegios..etc..etc…
Se toma todo esto como un JUEGO, y realmente no lo es..Y tiene mucho que ver los intereses propios de cada red, como tambien la falta de informacion en todos los medios.Coincido plenamente con tus palabras!
Tuve la suerte de visitar Londres en el 2000 y me gusto muchisimo!!
Saludos y suerte!!!
Clau from Argentina…….
Comment by Clau — July 10, 2010 @ 3:58 am
Thanks Clau – I do understand and agree with your comments! I much appreciate you writing. David
Comment by David Bond — July 12, 2010 @ 2:07 pm